What would Ygritte think of Arya

Page 12
         

Post # 1, written on December 7th, 2015 | 7:35 pm
In the "Jon Snow" thread there was already a heated discussion about the differences between book and series and I think it's time to move them here ^^

In order to stimulate discussion, I simply copy the most important of the relevant posts here:

Dead
I'm not too stupid to follow the show, the show is just too stupid to tell a reasonable story. A story that you should really only have to adapt properly ...
And I have to disappoint you, the leaks are now very common, it seems in the series that it actually comes down to Jon suddenly remembering that he has a sister in trouble and then fights an "epic" battle with Ramsay to avenge her .

I could throw up ...


Thyll Nocturnus
The series is - at least from the 5th season at the latest - pure heresy and blasphemy and whirling humbug and whoever still likes that season after reading the books does not know how to appreciate the books properly. My opinion.


bomb master
So I can't really understand the exaggerated hate against the GoT series. The series may certainly differ from the books, but this is also supported by GRRM and well justified with a butterfly-effect comparison. Both the books and the series have different advantages or disadvantages compared to the other medium. How exactly these advantages and disadvantages are, can certainly be debated. Certainly also partly depends on the taste. What makes it impossible for me to ignore the current hate wave as usual, however, is the incredibly presumptuous, insulting and brazen claim that people who like Season 5 do not appreciate the books (which I call a paraphrase for "inferior fan "interpret). I really think about how Maisie Williams once complained about the "arrogance of book readers". Seems, when I look into the forum here, to really have a true core.


Dead
You have to see it from the front: The exaggerated hype that is currently revolving around GoT is what people find extremely worrying. That and the way in which the producers (who are also the series authors at the same time) deal with book readers among their viewers and among the actors, that makes for a pretty toxic atmosphere.
I dare to speak for Thyll Nocturnis when I say that you don't want to attack anyone personally when kidding GoT. However, it is always irritating how people feel attacked anyway when you criticize the series as if their religion is being questioned. Ultimately, it shouldn't be a walk, but an invitation to deal critically with the media. What the audience at GoT lets go uncritically does not go on cow skin. Any other series with such inconsistent characterization and such gaping logic gaps would have long been discontinued and yet GoT is successfully sold as an 'intelligent' series.
The thing is, the more you think about the books, the better they get. The way every single plot, every single character arc works like a cog in an absurdly large clockwork, that's what got me so excited, that's what made me a fan. But that actually went downhill in the series from the second season onwards. It is the exact opposite there. The more you think about an episode, the deeper chasms open up. And I just find that extremely worrying.
And yes ... that's why I have to admit that those who still like the series without any compromises and continue to claim that this is 'intelligent' entertainment, that they have the enviable gift of being able to turn off their brains completely while consuming. Because the series cannot stand even the most minimal questioning.



bomb master
I think it's really funny that you're comparing GOT advocates with people whose religion has been questioned. After all, none of the GOT proponents has thrown around with words like "heresy", "blasphemy" and "blasphemy". In fact, this example points much more clearly to a confusion between passion for a good story and religious belief.
I also think that not everything about the series is absolutely perfect. But the same goes for the books. But I don't care more or less because I still think the story (both implementations) is great. I lower my standards a bit because when I'm looking for the absolutely perfect story, I have a hard time finding stories to entertain. Asoiaf / GOT is not perfect, but it is still one of the best I have ever dealt with.
I also don't find the series' logic gaps as serious as some of the others here, even if I agree that ASOIAF is absolutely top notch from a logical point of view. And I've seen a lot more illogical series than GOT Season 5, series that make my stomach turn when I think back to the nonsense. If I got upset about it, I would be busy for months (I HAD a phase like this earlier this year, the Naruto manga was just over and I just couldn't handle the last 50 chapters). I have now decided for myself that there is no point in getting so into hatred over a fictional series. And GOT is still way better than many other series even in season 5. The fact that it's about a realistic medieval setting and that practically anyone can die still appeals to me immensely. And that's why I'm still very excited to see how it continues (both with the books and the series).

For example, that they bring more storylines together. In the books, most of the POV characters are still isolated from the others. GRRM has also said that one of its greatest difficulties is putting the myriad of narrative strands back together. Preparations have already been made in this regard in the series.



Addicted to GoT
I see it like bomb masters in all respects. (Cool name by the way (;) I also think it's better, for example, that Tyrion and Jorah are officially in seas again. In the book they just mess around with Hella / Penny in the army of the second-born without Dany knowing about them.


Dead
Funny. And I complain that Tyrion's storyline has been robbed of all depth. And logic. Oh of course, Dany immediately accepts the son of the murderer of half her family with open arms as a consultant, because you can see Saint Tyrion at the tip of his nose that he is totally great. And now he even rules her city for her, because he can do it so much better than her and is the one with the most fans among the audience who is still hanging out in town. Logically speaking, no one should be able to accept his rule.

That is not a solution! Book Tyrion is earning Dany's trust by saving her damn city from a besieging army while recovering from the moral low that had brought out its darkest sides. All of this has been ironed out so he can beam to Meereen in record time. Apart from that, I found the justification of Dumm and Dumber for it borderline ingenious: "Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen." In plain language: They simply built it in because they wanted to bring together two of the characters for the odds, whose names are still known by most viewers. Not because it would in any way advance the story.

Speaking of isolation. After all, GRRM manages that characters who are close to each other are connected to each other even in their physical absence. Where is that on the show? Since we're on the subject of Jon, how often has Jon thought of Arya since season 1? Hell, in the books, his love for his sister was the reason he broke the Night Watch Oath and was killed! And in the series it doesn't seem to exist anymore for him. Out of sight, out of mind, eh? And even Arya's hiding scene with Needle was, according to Dumm and Dümmers interpretation, not about Jon, but about "revenge". Wow, really deep ...



DCMarvelFan
Or that Sansa not be looking for anything in the north, and certainly not marrying a Ramsey Schnee.
She belongs in the Green Valley where she learns from KL how to play the game. The portrayal of Lady Melisandre in the books, she is portrayed as mysterious and inscrutable and especially scenes with Jon are very charged with tension. And in series there is something like that on the one hand there is the evil Melisandre who likes to burn people and on the other hand there is the brave Davos. Us Stannis sit between the chairs.


Let the discussion begin ...
Biology: The only science where multiplication and division mean the same thing!
Post # 2, written on December 8th, 2015 | 11:06 am
  •  
last edited on 08.12.2015 | 11:57 am
There are several scenes that I count among my favorite scenes in the books that are either not about the law or only half-hearted.
Since conversations between Ned Stark and Varys after the Jon Arryn squire was killed in the book, it comes across a lot better.

Which is also one of my favorite scenes after Davos was thrown into the dungeon of Drachenstein and Melisandre visits him, she explains to him that the servants of the Other God are on the advance. I found this scene very well done by Melisandre, not as evil as it is portrayed in the series. Another scene in the next Davos chapter is his encounter with Stannis. And in the end Stannis appoints him to be his right hand of the king. And that's exactly what I liked in the series, Davos was simply the right hand of the king. Or it was briefly mentioned in the second season that Stannis planned to make Davos his right hand after his ascension to the throne. Everything comes across much better in the book.
Evil is evil, smaller, larger, in between, it's all one, the proportions are relative and the boundaries blurred. I am not a holy hermit, I have not only done good in life. But if I am to choose between one evil and the other, I would rather not choose at all.- Geralt of Rivia

Even normal inquiries from Yennifer read like threats, I always liked her.- Emhyr var Emeis
Article # 3, written on December 8th, 2015 | 11:24 a.m.
  •  
last edited on 08.12.2015 | 11:27 am
Thyll asked me about a few things I like about the series. And at the risk that some of them will not taste good at all:
1. Meryn Trantute's death scene and the Battle of Hartheim are some of my personal favorites of season 5. Many people may see it differently, but for me these scenes definitely had "epicness".
2. I also think it's positive that the plot develops faster. Where the book has quite a long length, the series goes on in rapid succession. That struck me positively above all with Brienne, who is close to another main event instead of in the middle of nowhere. Of course, some things are neglected, but it was clear from the start that the books could not be implemented 1 to 1.
3. GRRM just put way too many characters in while a lot of the cast from the old volumes is still in a storyline. With many Greyjoys and Martells, for example, I'm not 100% sure whether it really needed them. They're nice to read too, but I'm more interested in the other characters. That's why I advocate massive cuts in the series. Of course, it's a shame about some of the shortened characters, but I prefer to focus on a slightly smaller main cast.

For the sake of fairness, however, I'll also go back to the advantages of the books.
Of course, you can tell that there are no limits to the book GRRM's imagination, which the series does for budget reasons (in fact, the main reason he quit his screenwriting career, as far as I know).
Then of course there are quite a few scenes that I think are fantastic and where I think it's a shame that they weren't implemented. But I accept that, as already described above, a 1-to-1 adaptation is completely impossible.
And of course, that the ideas that are generated in my head by the descriptions look much better than a series could ever depict.

Dead
And even Arya's hiding scene with Needle was, according to Dumm and Dümmers interpretation, not about Jon, but about "revenge". Wow, really deep ...


To be honest, I didn't know that either. But I also think that's stupid ...
Post # 4, written on December 8th, 2015 | 12:12 pm
  •  
last edited on 08.12.2015 | 12:29 pm
Mmh, before this is about Show Apology, I just have to throw in the Show Defender Bingo again because all the arguments that can be brought forward for the series are already there: http://41.media.tumblr.com/ d87b45043c0b127b3ce2c5bf9e9e0a8e / tumblr_nv19ioMp1j1sq0qieo1_1280.png

@bombenmeister:

1. Trant is a bad example of "epicness" because it was just way too over-the-top. I don't get the point of turning Trant from a man who doesn't care about morals into a sinister cartoon of beating and raping little girls just to justify Arya's murder. Mainly because that leads the development of their murders from acts of affect to targeted acts without any particular emotions behind them to absurdity. That's exactly what gives you such a stomach ache in an arya chapter.
And Hardhome ... If more things had been right in season 5, I could have overlooked it. So it is nonsense, misses the horror factor from the books ("dead things in the woods, dead things in the water") and has a counterproductive effect on logic, because now the whole night watch knows how real the threat to others is and that it is Perhaps it could be an idiotic idea to behead your own organization now of all times. You should have expanded Stannis' Battle and Winterfell instead if you really needed a big battle for Episode 9. But that would have meant showing Stannis in a more positive light, although we all know that he is a monster in the eyes of stupid and dumber.
Nene, the Äktschn in Hardhome excuses nothing. And I don't even want to start with how the zombie stealing from World War Z is just another sign that D&D only cares about what's trending, not what's going to benefit their story.

2. Was the Brienne example sarcasm? She's done nothing more than stare at a bloody candle all season long, only to leave her post at the crucial moment to kill whoever is trying to save Sansa. Her whole storyline since arriving at King's Landing in season 4 has been a total write, just like Jaimes. And their bizarre habit of pointlessly attacking the Stark girls' allies is quite questionable ...

3. Shortening characters is a necessity, not a privilege. Personally, I like the high number of characters in the books, it makes the world come alive. And I could live with it if most of them were demoted to nameless extras. But in a series that wastes a lot of time on highly bizarre own creations like Rose, Olly, Olyvar etc. I think that the priorities of what is adapted and what is not are completely out of place.

The series is obviously not about a good story, but only about the next OMG shock YouTube moments. That's why it's so popular and nothing else: http://41.media.tumblr.com/cc36a93c6f7be3e2a61eb9c82c90fd51/tumblr_inline_no7sa7BFTB1rku3fs_500.jpg
"In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere." - Beatrice, the Golden Witch
"So if everyone accepts a lie, will that lie become the truth?" - Ushiromiya Battler

Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Post # 5, written on December 8th, 2015 | 3:49 pm
  •  
last edited on 08.12.2015 | 3:56 pm
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/game-of-thrones/246959/game-of-thrones-the-15-best-and-11-worst-book-changes

Here are some positive examples of what the writers of this article think the series did right (but one page further they also describe what they didn't think was great). Some things are called "positive" there, but I don't agree with all of them. I'll briefly summarize the points here in case someone doesn't speak English or doesn't want to take the time to read it all through.

Hartheim is also seen as positive here, as well as the fact that Tyrion and Daenerys meet and that Sansa comes to Winterfell (her wedding with and rape by Ramsay is, however, indicated under the negative things), as well as the change in relation to Brienne (Brienne vs Sandor was Incidentally, also a fight that I thought was really cool).
In addition, Catelyn and Cersei were toned down in the series compared to the book (which, however, doesn't really affect me because I see Catelyn as a mainly positive person and Cersei as a mainly negative person anyway). It is also praised that the Tyrell women and Bronn play a more important role (I also like to see scenes with these characters) and of course the Arya Tywin scenes and Jaquen's return. Apparently Connington and Young Griff weren't missed a bit (although I still count them among the better of the characters removed).
They indicated "aging" as first place, which I see differently because it is part of GRRM's setting that characters are married so young and things only had to be changed because of the actors.

The negative things included the Odysse in Dorne, Theon's torture by Ramsay and the attack on Crasters Keep (although I found these scenes quite good apart from Dorne) as well as the removal of various great Arya scenes (some of which I also painfully miss).
And of course various mistakes in relation to Jaime's character. I can't defend the series here either, because it really came across (unintentionally, of course) that Jaime raped Cersei. Here maybe they really should have stuck to the book. In this respect, I also admit at this point that the creators of the series made mistakes.
Article # 6, written on December 8th, 2015 | 7:58 pm
Catelyn was screwed up.
Even if Ms. Fairley is a brilliant actress, she can't help it.
Even if you look at the shooting schedules, it says somewhere: Robb & Mother
Wasn't it even worth it to write their name, whereas Catelyn is actually the tragic person and in the book also a POV character, Robb less so.
It is also consistently portrayed more stupid and naive than it actually is. Well

I won't say anything to Jon Snow, I don't like him either way.

There are a lot of missing details up to season 3, four is still somewhat okay, five deviated too much from me. WHAT'S THAT ABOUT SANSA ?!

I also miss Lady Stoneheart, I mean who is killing all the Freys now.
The series is just getting worse, the cast is great, but the story is screwed up.
Well, you don't have to look.

I keep waiting for Winds of Winter: D
Article # 7, written on December 9th, 2015 | 7:06 pm
I don't really mind if a film deviates from the plot of the book.
Assuming it serves to represent characters better, for example I had no problem with Lord of the Rings seeing how Saruman Isengard Park destroyed or how he breeds his Uru-Hai that shows how crazy Saruman is. That even goes so far that God plays. And as long as the changes are plausible. Tywin / Arya scenes for example.
In the book, Arya just scrubs floors and occasionally orders murders. When Tywin's moon check is just very exciting, for example when KL shows up in Harren Hall. One expects at any moment that he will recognize Arya. Well a little unrealistic, on the other hand, which nobleman, whether low or high, already pays attention to a dirty girl who serves as cupbearer for the mighty man of the Seven Kingdoms.
Evil is evil, smaller, larger, in between, it's all one, the proportions are relative and the boundaries blurred. I am not a holy hermit, I have not only done good in life. But if I am to choose between one evil and the other, I would rather not choose at all.- Geralt of Rivia

Even normal inquiries from Yennifer read like threats, I always liked her.- Emhyr var Emeis
Article # 8, written on December 9th, 2015 | 8:48 pm
  •  
last edited on 09.12.2015 | 8:48 pm
@DCMarvelFan: I would rather say: As long as characters are not represented better, but act logically and above all remain in-character (is there the expression?) And they don't do that, especially in the 5th season.
The Tywin / Arya scenes are well done, and I don't think anyone will say anything against that!

In general, I can only find a few points of criticism for the first three seasons, they are still relatively close to the books and what has been cut out and / or changed is understandable and largely in order. The only point of criticism that occurs to me now is Talisa and above all the fact that she is dead, which will probably mean that Jeyne Westerling will actually no longer play a major role :(
Otherwise, seasons 1-3 are absolutely fine, the botch only starts with season 4 and reaches its climax in season 5.
The 5th season is a complete fiasco. The points of criticism have already been chewed through enough, I don't want to list them all again ... that would take too long! ^^
I think it's a damn shame that Jon Connington and Aegon / the young griffin have been completely deleted as it looks - they probably don't play as big a role as I thought. And since when can you actually just sail through Valyria, I thought the only one who dared was Euron Greyjoy?
However, one thing has to be left to the 5th season: Dany's first kite flight is just epic.
Biology: The only science where multiplication and division mean the same thing!
Post # 9, written on December 10th, 2015 | 9:16 pm
@Chroyane Well there is DLvEuF Froumen who criticize the Arya / Tywin scenes because they think that Tywin is so grandfatherly towards Arya. That Tywin Lannister shouldn't act like that.
Evil is evil, smaller, larger, in between, it's all one, the proportions are relative and the boundaries blurred. I am not a holy hermit, I have not only done good in life. But if I am to choose between one evil and the other, I would rather not choose at all.- Geralt of Rivia

Even normal inquiries from Yennifer read like threats, I always liked her.- Emhyr var Emeis
Post # 10, written on December 12th, 2015 | 6:00 p.m.
  •  
last edited on 12.12.2015 | 6:01 pm
Sansa alone was really screwed up. In my opinion, she has a completely different character on the show. Just look at a few of their quotes.
This alone:
"It was Robb she wept for. Him and Margaery. "vs." We have a new queen "(while rolling her eyes)

Not to mention Brienne. She's one of my favorite characters in the book, and I can't stand her in the series since season 4. I don't even know exactly what bothers me about her, somehow the overall picture just isn't right anymore. I mean, the only thing Brienne does on the show is murdering people and nagging Podrick (although he really doesn't get anything done on the show). And she also acts extremely stupidly. Who would think that it would be a good idea to just go to a table in a full inn and say, "Oh, Sansa is coming with me now, and no objections!"

Margaery is such a point in itself. I really like Natalie Dormer, but season 5 Margaery is beyond good and bad. Just how she gets a fit of anger because Loras is late for dinner and she's hungry. If there was any connection to this, a 10-year-old could have come up with a better scene.
"You are like Icarus of legend. Ego and pride drew you to the sun, borne aloft on wings of your own making, yet when you fell it was everyone else who died."
Post # 11, written on December 27th, 2015 | 9:41 pm
bomb master

1. Meryn Trantute's death scene and the Battle of Hartheim are some of my personal favorites of season 5. Many people may see it differently, but for me these scenes definitely had "epicness".
2. I also think it's positive that the plot develops faster. Where the book has quite a long length, the series goes on in rapid succession. That struck me positively above all with Brienne, who is close to another main event instead of in the middle of nowhere. Of course, some things are neglected, but it was clear from the start that the books could not be implemented 1 to 1.
3. GRRM just put way too many characters in while a lot of the cast from the old volumes is still in a storyline. With many Greyjoys and Martells, for example, I'm not 100% sure whether it really needed them. They're nice to read too, but I'm more interested in the other characters. That's why I advocate massive cuts in the series. Of course, it's a shame about some of the shortened characters, but I prefer to focus on a slightly smaller main cast.



1. With Meryn Trant, I have the uneasy feeling that he only became a child molester to make Arya's bestial murder seem fair. I read on some pages (comments, etc.) that it was unjust for Jaquen to punish her for doing a service to society. For me this is not "epic", but just plain clumsy, Meryn can still have annoyed me so much.

2. And because the plot went so quickly, did you write your own Dorne fanfic? Sorry, they could have developed other arcs or introduced the Greyjoys earlier. And even if Nicolai (filming Gods of Egypt) and Gwendolyne (Star Wars and Panem) were not available due to other projects (and the Edmure actor might not have been available because of Outlander) and the Riverlands was not shot could, one could have simply deleted the two actors for a season. Especially with Mothers Mercy I had the feeling that way too much was being squeezed into one episode. And Jon's murder seemed to me as if they really wanted to put in a cliffhanger to increase the tension for season 6. "For the Cliffhanger" would have been more appropriate than "For the Watch" 😇

3. Of course you have to cut characters when filmed such a large work as the song. But if you leave out characters like Jeyne Westerling and introduce characters like (Schm) Olly, Talisa and Myranda, the whole thing gets ridiculous from my point of view. Especially with Talisa (noble girl who comes from a slave town and detests it after a drastic experience, goes as a wound healer to a war-torn continent, where she, while saving the life of an insignificant soldier, meets a young king by chance and the two fall immortally in love) the cliché oozes from every pore that Martin would never have written like that. The whole thing sounds to me like one of those historical women novels, such as those published by Ini Lorenz.

I haven't read your link completely. When I said it was a positive change that Cercei and Robert had a Stillborn Child, I stopped reading. Because the child was not stillborn, but died of a fever.

"This is your home. I'm your guest. Handsome one, isn't he? I lost my first boy, a little black-haired beauty. He was a fighter too ... Tried to beat the fever that took him. "

What is of course taken ad absurdum in season 5 by the prophecy of Maggy, because the young Cersei is told that she will have 3 children. D + D must have either forgotten what they wrote there or the boy only had the purpose of "discreetly" pointing out to the audience that Joffrey and his siblings were not from Robert. And they hoped the audience wouldn't notice a few years later.

Great, but what can you expect from scriptwriters from whom statements like "Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen" (Tyrion meets Dany) come from, also great.

Don't get it wrong, I do believe that a meeting between Tyrion and Dany might make sense (but not in the form shown, as Toth has already pointed out). But I expect a better statement from two scriptwriters of one of the most successful and popular series than that they just wanted it and therefore it makes sense from a creative point of view.

Tyrion, Jon (is killed for rescuing the wildlings from Harhome and not because he wants to lead a wildling army against the Boltons to free his beloved sister Arya so that the oath can ultimately be broken) and Arya (also because Meryn from her victim becoming a pedophile) are examples of extreme whitewashing. Probably because D + D like the characters themselves. They couldn't stand Stannis, as they once said in an interview, and so an unyielding character became someone who ultimately had his beloved daughter (and only heiress) burned because he was desperate over 10 cm of snow.
Post # 12, written on February 15, 2016 | 4 p.m.
I have a quick question for everyone who has read the books as well as watched the series.
I am aware that there are sometimes differences between the two, but as a series watcher I ask myself:

Are there really such major changes that the trailer at the beginning of the new season, as well as photos exclusively from the set, are so hyped that even book connoisseurs don't know what to do next? Or is that just the usual build-up of tension before the start of the season?
~ ° - ° ~ The only path to freedom is probably madness. All it'd take is a little push but most of us lack the courage for the fall. ~ ° - ° ~ ~ mixed sayings ~

~ ° - ° ~ Alright you got me! I might have overstuffed my resume. Hey, they say dress for the job you want, not for the one you have! ~ ° - ° ~ ~ Bill Cipher (Gravity Falls) ~
Post # 13, written on February 15, 2016 | 4:12 pm
  •  
last edited on 02/15/2016 | 4:28 pm
kusari-de
Have there really been such major changes that the trailer at the beginning of the new season, as well as photos exclusively from the set, are so hyped that even book connoisseurs do not know what to do next? Or is that just the usual build-up of tension before the start of the season?


I do not fully understand the question. There is still no real trailer, just photos from the set and rumors. And according to these rumors, it now seems to be rowing back because of the additional season ordered by HBO and screwing up A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons material again. True to the motto "Fuck continuity, where would we go if we had to turn the consequences of our changes?"

So ... yes and no. It's fairly clear that they're still screwing up familiar territory, but the rate of change is so high that basically anything could happen. After all, the characters are brushed 180 ° against their characterization, all plot structures are devalued and you only want to shimmy from meaningless moment of shock to meaningless moment of shock anyway.
Accordingly: As a book reader you know roughly Where it works, but for the rest you can only hold your hands in the air disarmed and come up with the stupidest scenario that can be assumed. Dumb and dumber will definitely undercut it.
"In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere." - Beatrice, the Golden Witch
"So if everyone accepts a lie, will that lie become the truth?" - Ushiromiya Battler

Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Post # 14, written on February 15, 2016 | 5:21 pm
shatiel
Especially with Mothers Mercy I had the feeling that way too much was being squeezed into one episode. And Jon's murder seemed to me like they really wanted to put in a cliffhanger to increase the tension for season 6. "For the Cliffhanger" would have been more appropriate than "For the Watch" 😇




Absolutely! From the beginning I feared that Jon would still get caught in season 5 and five minutes before the end of the season I thought: "Phew, lucky, he still has a little ..." - then change of scene to the wall and I just like that : "No, right? They want to deal with that in five minutes ?!" Whereby Olly was the icing on the cake. It really only exists so that you can pin the deaths of Ygritte and Jon on someone without having to use a more likeable character for it😒

Incidentally, Cersei's prophecy was also seriously screwed up. When did "Maggy the Frog" mutate into a lolling sex bomb? 😮And why on earth was the Valonqar (or Valonquar ??) omitted?
I shouldn't have clicked the thread again. I can think of more and more things that were hit against the wall in the 4th and 5th seasons, but before I feel the need to throw anything against the wall again, I better get out of the dust ...
Biology: The only science where multiplication and division mean the same thing!
Post # 15, written on 02/21/2016 | 9:53 p.m.
I would like to have my say here.
My species is probably rare, but I saw the series first and then read the books. So maybe my opinion is a little different.

What bothers me the most about season 5 is really Dorne. I have no idea how they managed to screw up a damn likeable storyline like that. Not only do the sand snakes look more like pupating 12-year-olds who think they are the queens of the dance floor, but also Myrcella's murder and the absence of Arianne (and Quentyn).

Personally, I found that the last few books introduced almost too many characters for seas, but so be it.Funnily enough, I don't like Aegon at all, in retrospect I would wish for the Quentyn-and-the-Dragons scene (as tragic as it is).
So: Dorne is an absolute no-go for me in the series.

I don't want to go into the rest of the botched thing.

What I noticed, however, can be seen at the 'ends' of the book and the series: While the book somehow cares more about 'ice and fire', that's somehow totally secondary in the series, isn't it? Sure, nice that Dany has her funny dragons and can take an epic ride on them, but the White Walkers look more like a creepy effect in the series than an effective threat (compared to the series).
So I think the name of the series is not that badly chosen, because in my opinion the focus is much more on 'Who is King?' placed than in the books.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" »
~ Hunter S. Thompsen

[MDU project: note-takers for "A Song of Ice and Fire" welcome.]
Post # 16, written on March 9th, 2016 | 1:44 pm
I came across an interesting theory (since everyone here knows what's going on in both the book and the series, I guess there is no need for a spoiler warning). Towards the end of ADWD in Jon's "Death" chapter, Wun Wun, the giant, took apart this stupid knight who said he had to mess with him. The theory now says that at the beginning of the 6th season Olly will take over this role, attack the giant and die a gruesome death for it. Since Olly is so incredibly hated by many here, this phrase (if it actually comes down to it) should be received positively. Well, let's see if they really do it that way.
Post # 17, written on March 18, 2016 | 8:03 pm
I came across a very interesting article that, to be honest, gave me quite a bit of relief: http://www.inquisitr.com/2827297/george-rr-martin-gifts-readers-an-exclusive-plot-twist-leaving -game-of-thrones-in-the-dust / # fdtMMO9XED5Vk8by.99

After I heard that from season 5 people were dying who were still alive in the book, I paused the series for the time being (I want to read the books first, even if Book 6 will take a while). Besides, I think it's good that Martin has now made it clear that series and books are to be viewed as different and that the whole thing is now clearly demarcated.

Slowly more and more changes came in that I wasn't really happy with. Since Martin is now planning that both will run in different directions, I find it all the more exciting.
Still, I'll be waiting for book six before moving on to the series.
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies [...]. The man who never reads lives only one. "
Post # 18, written on March 18, 2016 | 8:15 pm
Uh, as far as I can remember, people died in season 1 who were allowed to live in the books for a long time. * cough * Marillion * cough *
"In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere." - Beatrice, the Golden Witch
"So if everyone accepts a lie, will that lie become the truth?" - Ushiromiya Battler

Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Post # 19, written on March 18, 2016 | 9:22 pm
Well, I don't think Marrilionn is dying.
I think Joffrey has his tongue cut out.
But it comes out the same, of course.

Only these are rather minor changes that you would find in any film adaptation of a book. In my opinion there are much worse changes, e.g. Stannis.
"Tomorrow the future will be better." -Dan Quayle
Post # 20, written on March 29th, 2016 | 12:08 pm
Electra Heart
I came across a very interesting article that, to be honest, gave me quite a bit of relief: http://www.inquisitr.com/2827297/george-rr-martin-gifts-readers-an-exclusive-plot-twist-leaving -game-of-thrones-in-the-dust / # fdtMMO9XED5Vk8by.99

After I heard that from season 5 people were dying who were still alive in the book, I paused the series for the time being (I want to read the books first, even if Book 6 will take a while). Besides, I think it's good that Martin has now made it clear that series and books are to be viewed as different and that the whole thing is now clearly demarcated.

Slowly more and more changes came in that I wasn't really happy with. Since Martin is now planning that both will run in different directions, I find it all the more exciting.
Still, I'll be waiting for book six before moving on to the series.


There are also many theories that say that the book and the series will come to different ends.
As I mentioned above, the focus in the books is much more on the dragon and the wanderer than on the throne (with the possible exception of Cersei, who wants this throne for all of the world), in the series there is the throne much more in focus.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body,
but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" »
~ Hunter S. Thompsen

[MDU project: note-takers for "A Song of Ice and Fire" welcome.]
Post # 21, written on March 29th, 2016 | 12:24 p.m.
Antjenia
There are also many theories that say that book and series will come to different ends.
As I mentioned above, the focus in the books is much more on the dragon and the wanderer than on the throne (with the possible exception of Cersei, who wants this throne for all of the world), in the series there is the throne much more in focus.


Shocks are in the foreground in the series, while Characters are most important in the books. I think that's the way to explain most of the differences. At least that are not just based on the fact that Benioff, Weiss and Cogman go through their ego trips and are convinced that they are better authors than GRRM.
"In this world, there is no truth. The truth is made later on and overwrites what comes before it. Real truth doesn't exist anywhere." - Beatrice, the Golden Witch
"So if everyone accepts a lie, will that lie become the truth?" - Ushiromiya Battler

Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Post # 22, written on April 14th, 2016 | 10:21 p.m.
  •  
last edited on 04/14/2016 | 10:23 pm
Stannis in the book: "My daughter is my heir and therefore I leave her well protected by the wall. Now I spank the asses of the iron men in Deepwood Motte and then I will take back Winterfell together with the Glovers, Mormonts and the Hills Clans!"

Stannis in the book: "Hmm, who would have thought that marching off aimlessly wasn't a good idea? Throw a daughter on the fire again, I'm cold."

Brienne: "Look there, Pod and I are suddenly in Winterfell! How we got through the Eng? No questions!"

Tyene Sand: "I showed Bronn my breasts. Isn't that soooo edgy?"

Ellaria Sand: "And I poison Myrcella and accept a war. Which is the exact opposite of my character in the book!"

Otherwise this is a good collection too:
http://gotgifsandmusings.tumblr.com/post/123075358572/the-carol-awards
Post # 23, written on December 22nd, 2017 | 05:25 am
Oh, where should I start ...? There have been a lot of things screwed up on the show, especially since season 6, but for the sake of simplicity I'll limit myself to the two things that bothers me most personally.

1. Elia Martell, sister of Doran and Oberyn Martell, Princess of Dorne and Westeros, mother of Rhaenys and Aegon VI Targaryen. Ouch. Just ... It hurts to watch season seven and see how cold-blooded and cruel such important characters are being pushed aside just so that some melancholy wannabe can get a better storyline. (No, I'm not a big fan of Jon Snow ...)

2. The pathetic apology the show calls "Euron Greyjoy". Aside from the name, he doesn't have much to do with the Euron from the books - since his appearance on Kingsmoot, I've just wanted someone to finally kill him. Nothing against Pilou Asbaek - after all, he can't help with the script - but he wouldn't have been my first choice for Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy (Richard Armitage, my one and only Faceclaim).
Especially when I think of the actor saying Euron would make Ramsay look like a little kid - he would have been right about Book! Euron, but what D&D have delivered is just sad. Really very sad.
​​​​​
Post # 24, written on January 17th, 2018 | 7:00 p.m.
So, now I've got the chance to think about what actually annoys me about Game of Thrones (compared to the book version).

First of all, I have the impression that kin murder / kinslaying is not portrayed as negatively in the series as in the books. Of course there are also enough examples of Kinslaying in the books - Rhaegars death by his distant cousin Robert, Craster's murder of his sons, Tyrion, Stannis (although it is only hinted in the books that he has something to do with Renly's death, resp. it is assumed that Melisandre did not act arbitrarily), various assumptions / suspicions (Euron, Ramsay), ...

But in the series, Jaime also kills his cousin, Ramsay kills his father, stepmother and newborn half-brother, Stannis has his only heiress burned, Cersei wipes out uncle and cousin with Wildfire. Have I forgotten who else? Probably - but all I can think of is Obara (isn't that the one with the spear?) Who stabs Trystane from behind. And anyway in season 6 I had the feeling that kinship murder is less of a serious offense but is taken very lightly.

Unfortunately, some characters were also completely screwed up:

- Stannis. I'm not that big a Stannis fan myself, personally, the character is too brittle and pragmatic. But if he marches blindly off, takes his heiress (who, by the way, is the last Baratheon, since Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were not Robert's children) into a battle with an uncertain outcome, has the camp guarded so poorly that his armed forces are replaced by a few " good men "is brought to the brink of chaos and then - because 2 cm of snow is so much - lets his heiress burn - I consider the character to be thoroughly messed up. But D + D themselves said that they don't like Stannis very much, so it was just logical for them to turn a straightforward character who acts pragmatically and an experienced general into a child-killing, emotionless, grammar-correcting religion fanatic.
- Ellaria, Doran, the sand snakes. In the Dorne plot, almost every character was twisted / misunderstood. Ellaria changes from "Vengeance won't bring Oberyn back" to "Let's kill all the Lannisters. And Doran, the old snore nose with us. Hey, why don't we kill his son right away, then we will rule great women" . Doran, who doesn't spit much in the book, but notices everything and works out one or the other secret plan, becomes a tantalum that doesn't notice anything at all. And the Sandsnakes ramble about revenge in the book, but they are basically convinced by arguments. I'm really glad that Arianne didn't appear in the series - she would probably have been screwed up too.
- Euron: After book Euron is "cool" to abysmally evil (preliminary chapter), series Euron is a disappointment. If sex jokes, dwarf jokes and the killing of characters who are not exactly popular with the audience are supposed to be "worse than anything Ramsay has done", then I don't know anymore.
- Roose and Littlefinger: In the book, both are simply very intelligent characters, in the series they already have one or the other brain fart, but luck does not have as bad effects as they would be (the Sansa marriage as an example ). Series Littlefinger acts like a player who hopes to win by manipulating the gaming table one or the other. Buch-Littlefinger also tries to bribe the croupier, guards and casino management so that nothing can go wrong.
- The Waif: a supporter / teacher of Arya becomes a jealous, mare-biting bitch who should probably only feel real joy once - when she receives permission to kill Arya.
Post # 25, written on January 17th, 2018 | 9:21 pm
So now the rest of my series rant.

I have to admit that I saw the first few seasons before I read the books, so I only noticed a lot later (or I was pointed out by other people). I want to write chronologically - season by season - what comes to my mind about "Meh" moments.

season 1
there is actually little that I found a shame. The only thing is that Jorah is mentioned as a spy right at the beginning, whereas in the books he is only later exposed as a traitor - surprising for me, but maybe I overlooked hints. And the relationship between Renly / Loras, which is handled subtly in the books, while the series comes with a mallet.

season 2
I thought Talisa was the worst. Not only is the character written so incredibly gutty in my opinion, I also found the book version with Jeyne far more interesting. Robb, who finally stumbles over the high code of honor exemplified by his father by not simply pushing Jeyne aside after deflowering her. But I have the feeling that a lot of viewers thought it was better, a character leaves all logic for love (oh, how romantic) instead of honor. Although honor was extremely important in the Middle Ages - at least from what I know - and Robb's eventual fall due to high morale proving "stupid" is interesting. Most of all, Tywin's apparently calm reaction to the Westerling betrayal is interesting. I wouldn't go so far as to insinuate that Tywin had instructed Jeyne's mother to seduce Robb so that he would lose his Frey allies - but he would be capable of making such a move.

season 3
Here, too, I noticed Talisa the most negatively. The fact that Jeyne does not go to the Red Wedding simply makes more sense than dragging the bride along, which Walder Frey has to humiliate even more. Walder was an ally the Starks needed to piss him off even more here, and there is something very self-destructive about it. Okay, in the end leaving Jeynes at home didn't help either. But it was easy to see that Talisa was only introduced to let Robb cancel his engagement to Roslin Frey and they no longer had any use for her.

Season 4
Here, too, the mallet method was used again, with Olenna frankly admitting that she was involved in Joffrey's death. In the books, the afair was much more subtle.
I don't quite understand why Tommen and Myrcella have now been made a few years older. Just so there could be a sex scene between Tommen (aka the revived Martyn Lannister) and Margarey?
The wildlings, who killed everyone in previous seasons so that no one could warn the Night Watch or the Northern Lords, are now roaming around openly murderous and even send witnesses to the Night Watch. Consistent writing looks different. But with Schmolly-Olly you have at least one character who can be blamed for the death of Jon's great love Ygritte.
Otherwise there was one or the other scene for me that could have been left out in order to maybe expand other storylines better or to let one or the other character of the Nachwache (Marsh, Yarwick) be more present. For example, the conversation between Tyrion and Jaime about the cousin who stayed behind and was crushing beetles.

Season 5
I've already mentioned the senseless burning of Shireen (which I hope won't appear in the books, just for reasons of distance) and the Dorne plot.
Why does Ramsay marry the real Sansa (a wanted regicide) and not the fake Arya (who, with the knowledge of the Lannisters, is apparently passed off as the last Stark to secure the Boltons as Warden of the North)? Sure, Sansa doesn't have much to do in the books anymore - fending off her "father's" advances, having fun with Sweetrobin and learning how to play the Game of Thrones on the side.
Jon names Thorne first ranger and wants to train Olly like Mormont trained him. On the mission to Hardhome he leaves the first ranger behind (no, it is not at all illogical to leave the first border guard in the castle and not take him on a mission beyond the wall) and he doesn't need Olly as his chamberlain either (Mormont took Jon goes on the Beyond the Wall mission to learn something. Why should Jon do the same just because he wants to train Olly).Of course, without Thorne and Olly, none of the people who kill Jon would have looked familiar to the 0815 series watcher, I don't want to say that they wouldn't have murdered Jon after all if they had been in Hardhome and seen the threat. But imho it would have been less likely.

Season 6 I as a whole very underground. Starting with the fact that no one doubts Jon's story (was revived) and wants to have him executed as a deserter, to Dany's permanent fire resistance, Tyrion, which consists only of booze and bad jokes, to Jon's coronation based on the lecture of an 8-year-old snot. The Battle of the Bastards was well coordinated, but the Vale Army was just too deus ex machina.

Season 7 undercut the whole thing, it was such a classic filler season. Dany manages to gamble away her numerical superiority within a few episodes, making Cersei suddenly a serious opponent for her. Beyond the Wall (just that they deliver a dragon to Nightking's home. My highlight, however, was that they wait until the lake is frozen again and the zombies attack them until Sandor comes up with the idea to smash the ice and the Letting zombies sink in. It's not written so obviously) is probably the worst episode of the entire series.

Page 12