What is the word order in Vietnamese


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wekon2000
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Posted: 03/17/2014, 6:34 pm Learn German in Heidelberg

Hello,

which younger woman is interested in learning German with my Vietnamese sister-in-law (for 6 months in Germany). On the one hand, there would be a possibility to do this via Skype or to meet in Heidelberg. A learning group on founding a company would also be conceivable.

Kind regards.
Werner
    
Pho_Bo
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Posted: 03/17/2014, 7:52 pm (no title)

I'll speak from my experience. When learning the German language, experiments via Skype are not particularly useful. You should better attend integration courses (around 1.20 euros per hour, provided that the access requirements are met, fee exemption possible) or a professional language school. Study groups are good as a supplement or as a language tandem.

MfG Bo
    
wekon2000
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Posted: Mar 20, 2014, 11:39 am (no title)

Hello Pho_Bo,

Yes you are right. I completely forgot to mention that my sister-in-law attended the first German seminar (6 months) at the university and will start the second semester in April. Had thought of a study group or language tandem so that you could improve your German.

Kind regards.
Werner
    
Natalie_Tran
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Posted: Mar 20, 2014, 11:50 am (no title)

unfortunately I am no longer there, have lived in Mannheim for almost 6 years
    
Pho_Bo
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Posted: Mar 20, 2014, 5:00 p.m. (no title)

She can practice German at any opportunity: asking people for directions, shopping, reading newspapers, understanding radio and television, etc.
I think it is important to communicate in German as much as possible. For this reason, she should avoid hanging out mainly among Vietnamese compatriots. I know what I'm talking about and the successful ones do it that way.

MfG Bo
    
Natalie_Tran
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Posted: Mar 20, 2014, 5:25 pm (no title)

In theory it is so. But in reality: Germans always speak so quickly, with colloquial language / dialect and nobody pays attention to the fact that she is a foreigner.

When I came to DE, I learned German for 4 years at the university in Vietnam, but I couldn't understand everything. Wekon2000's sister-in-law has only been there for 6 months.
    
Nghia
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Posted: Mar 20, 2014, 6:09 pm (no title)

Germans don't talk so fast -.- ...

You can really learn spoken language among people or get used to it.
But writing language is really the better solution at school / university.

@Natalie_Tran
In Germany you always learn German faster / better / more precisely than anywhere else, I don't think you can compare the quality between vn and de.


@werner
Why do you have to take care of your sister-in-law ???
As a student, you should have sufficient opportunities to learn German.
    
Natalie_Tran
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Posted: Mar 21, 2014, 6:02 am (no title)

In my experience: fortunately I learned grammar in Vietnam and reached level C1. In DE, I just have to improve my reaction (listening, speaking) through everyday communication (shopping, lecturing ...).

Don't expect someone to correct your grammar and writing style. I can say that after 6 years of studying and working in DE, I don't have to thank any native German speaker for teaching me German. Ultimately, most native German speakers cannot explain, e.g. when to use the dative-accusative or when to use which preposition.

Why do you think I CANNOT compare the quality between VI & DE? What is the quality of this?
    
der_tomtomtom




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Written on: Mar 21, 2014, 7:17 am (no title)

Yes, unfortunately it is a common fallacy that native speakers are automatically the better teachers. Most native speakers lack the ability to explain grammatical forms explicitly. If you ask Germans why e.g. Time information always has to precede causal information and modal information, they will look at you with three question marks. And if there are also temporal and modal additions, you can drive almost everyone crazy, especially since hardly anyone knows what the difference between information and additions is and in which order the case has to be.
Why can I say "I always love you" but not "At lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel" but only "At lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel"

Why is that? Native speakers learned the language implicitly as a child from their parents - i.e. rules are applied from the point of view of feeling according to the motto - That sounds right to me.
Non-native speakers, on the other hand, have learned the language explicitly. D.H. You have to cognitively work out all forms. Someone who has explicitly learned a language well is always aware of which rule he is currently applying and why or can quickly become aware of it. Therefore, a non-native speaker can often be of better help to someone who is studying (provided they have a good understanding of the rule).

German grammar is unfortunately very, very complex, but fortunately also very systematic and logical. Almost like math - especially when you look at positions in a sentence.
A major advantage native speakers have, however, is the pronunciation and the authentic language production. E.g. In which situation should I use "give" and when should I use "make available".
Actually, it doesn't matter whether you learn from a native speaker or not - it is more important to get all the forms on it, especially with German at the beginning.
One learns 100 percent pronunciation and authentic language usage by practicing and using it over several years. But first of all it is important that you can form a reasonable sentence at all ...

And finally, a small task / question for all native and non-native speakers:

Why is this sentence correct ?:
I always drive my car to Düsseldorf on Thursdays for an important meeting.
And why is this sentence wrong ?:
I drive to Düsseldorf in my car for an important meeting every Thursday.

And why can I put "always" (X) in different positions in the sentence - and how does this change the meaning of the sentence?
I'm going to Düsseldorf (X) on Thursday (X) for an important meeting (X) in my car (X).

These are, for example, questions that German learners have to deal with if they want to learn the language properly. Even DaF graduates have problems with this, because unfortunately far too little grammar is taught during the course.
    
Nghia
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Written on: Mar 21, 2014, 9:11 am (no title)

«Der_tomtomtom» wrote the following:

"I always love you" but not "at lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel" but only "at lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel"

Why is this sentence correct ?:
I always drive my car to Düsseldorf on Thursdays for an important meeting.
And why is this sentence wrong ?:
I drive to Düsseldorf in my car for an important meeting every Thursday.


Don't you say "I love you FOREVER?"
"At lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel" what does "always" refer to here? For schnitzel or lunch?

"At lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel" -> always refers to lunchtime, where you omit "always" because of noon.

The same applies to the second example, either you put a comma here, or rather "I go every Friday ..."

@_Tran
"... I don't have to thank any native German speaker for teaching me German. ..." Were you only among the Vietnamese or did you just have false friends?

So my friends help me if I would ask them, they may not be able to explain everything to you, but "right" "wrong" "strangely worded", they can help you, that is also helpful!

Why differentiate the quality in VN and DE?
well with C1 in Germany you wouldn’t have had to practice your "reaction" any more!

You can learn as much grammar / spelling / sentence structure as you want, but each area is formulated differently and different words are used, e.g. business - computer science - science - everyday life ...
There is some degree in "journalist" "technical writer" ...
The context is the most important thing in a text.

Did you learn how to pronounce the pronunciation in vn?
Did you learn how to recognize jokes / irony / sarcasm and when to use them?

Are you telling me that you haven't improved your German in the last 6 years? (only practiced reaction?)

Dative-accusative are similar to DER DIE DAS ... how are they supposed to explain that to you? ? ?
    
der_tomtomtom




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Posted: 21.03.2014, 10:22 (no title)

@Nghia
Don't you say "I love you FOREVER?"

Both are correct - one time "always" is a supplement, the other time it is a temporal statement.

"At lunchtime I always eat a schnitzel" -> always refers to lunchtime, where you omit "always" because of noon.

If "always" were to refer to "noon", the sentence would be: I always eat schnitzel at noon.
In my example, "always" reinforces the "Schnitzel (eat)" addition and must therefore come before the addition.

The same applies to the second example, either you put a comma here, or rather "I go every Friday ..."

Wrong - the order of the information in the sentence is important here (temporal, modal etc.) and not the comma or anything else. Can best be explained with question words (when, how, why, where).

Dative-accusative are similar to DER DIE DAS ... how are they supposed to explain that to you? ? ?

What should be similar about it? DER DIE DAS are certain articles or pronouns - that doesn't have anything to do with the cases, because articles are based on the case and not the other way around.

In general, what matters most is the teacher's knowledge of the language and the methodology used in the classroom, and not whether or not the teacher is a native speaker. Advantage for native speakers: phonetics, authentic use of language / advantage for non-native speakers - better awareness of the learner's culture-specific problems (with the same culture), may understand the learner's problems better (because they have experienced it themselves).

All of this is not general - it is of course extremely different from one individual to the next, but I think I can see a tendency.
    
Natalie_Tran
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Posted: Mar 21, 2014, 1:32 pm (no title)

«Nghia» wrote the following:

@_Tran
"... I don't have to thank any native German speaker for teaching me German. ..." Were you only among the Vietnamese or did you just have false friends?

So my friends would help me if I would ask them, they might not be able to explain everything to you, but "right" "wrong" "strangely worded", they can help you, that is also a help!


No, I was neither among the Vietnamese nor among the "wrong friends". If they were "wrong" I would never have made friends with them.

Can you explain to a foreigner when to use "s" - "x", "y" - "i", "r" - "d" etc.? And if you can't, are you a "wrong" Vietnamese ???

Most Germans can only tell you if it's "wrong" or "right", but they don't know "WHY". A foreigner should know "WHY" is said so that he can learn faster and remember it longer.

In this sense, I am of the same opinion as der_tomtomtom: It is difficult as a native German speaker to explain German, not because he is a "wrong" German, but because he can automatically speak German.

And one more thing: you think that Germans don't talk so quickly.
Please remember, if you speak Vietnamese as a native speaker, you think it is normal but it is really quick for a foreigner who is learning Vietnamese.

Can you understand something simple?


«Nghia» wrote the following:

Why differentiate the quality in VN and DE?
well with C1 in Germany you wouldn’t have had to practice your "reaction" any more!

You can learn as much grammar / spelling / sentence structure as you want, but each area is formulated differently and different words are used, e.g. business - computer science - science - everyday life ...
There is some degree in "journalist" "technical writer" ...
The context is the most important thing in a text.

Did you learn how to pronounce the pronunciation in vn?
Did you learn how to recognize jokes / irony / sarcasm and when to use them?

Are you telling me that you haven't improved your German in the last 6 years? (only practiced reaction?)


In Vietnam, of course, I practiced pronunciation through television / Youtube / radio ... Ultimately, my studies in Vietnam were "German as a Foreign Language". Word binding, syntax ... I learned in Vietnam.
What do you think that I only took a language course for immigrants or what?

My grammar got worse even after a time in DE because I didn't have to use everything.

Jokes / irony / sarcasm / colloquial language / dialects are not important for my studies. I CAN learn them, but DON'T HAVE to learn.


«Nghia» wrote the following:

Dative-accusative are similar to DER DIE DAS ... how are they supposed to explain that to you? ? ?


Of course you should explain to a foreigner, e.g. WHY you don't say "I am writing you an email" but rather "I am writing you an email".
    
Humanity
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Posted: Mar 21, 2014, 2:54 pm (no title)

«Der_tomtomtom» wrote the following:
Why is this sentence correct ?:
I always drive my car to Düsseldorf on Thursdays for an important meeting.
And why is this sentence wrong ?:
I drive to Düsseldorf in my car for an important meeting every Thursday.


In the first sentence I understood that I had to go to Düsseldorf because the meeting always takes place on Thursday

With the 2nd sentence I understand that I only drive on Thursday and not when the meeting does not take place on Thursday.
    
der_tomtomtom




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Written on: Mar 21, 2014, 3:41 pm (no title)

«Humanitaet» wrote the following:
In the first sentence I understood that I had to go to Düsseldorf because the meeting always takes place on Thursday

With the 2nd sentence I understand that I only drive on Thursday and not when the meeting does not take place on Thursday.


No, that's wrong too - sorry

Brief explanation - there are 4 items of information in this sentence:
on Thursday
because of an important meeting
with my car
to Dusseldorf

In German, the rule applies that information in a sentence - if there is more than one - must always be given in the following order / priority:
1. Temporal (when?) 2. Causal (why?) 3. Modal (how?) 4. Local (where?)
Easy to remember with the donkey bridge: You can learn to dance!

Even a lot of Germans just do it wrong - but someone who is just learning this has to adhere to this rule as a matter of urgency, because otherwise something like this can also come out of it:
I'm going to Düsseldorf on Thursday. - Say that out loud - that sounds scary ...

And believe me - hardly any native speaker knows that ...
    
Niko
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Posted: Mar 21, 2014, 4:18 pm (no title)

@der_tomtomtom,

I am also a native German speaker, but when you give me your explanations, I will get out. I didn't get that in school and I will probably never learn it again.

Yesterday, at my son's new school, I was told that some parents would teach their German children German themselves. All I can do is shake my head and say "Unfortunately I can't do that, definitely not, that won't work".

With my son I can read, do chores and that's that. I can tell him if something is wrong, but why, there is a problem with me.

I stick to my opinion, German is a very difficult language.

Niko
    


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