What martial art is useless in MMA

Athlete? [Page 4]

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Edited 1 time. Last on 10/13/18 9:06 AM.
Kraver  📅 04.06.2016 12:18:19
From griffin @ Kraver: Then enlighten me, show me a Krav Maga fight where there is really fighting. And tell me why nobody with a Krav Maga background is named in MMA or UFC, but because boxing, muay thai, wrestling or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu are the most popular systems. Bruce Lee himself said that if you want to be able to defend yourself sensibly - and in a very short time - you should practice boxing extensively for six months and wrestling extensively for six months. Krav Maga requires nothing more than blunt force.
"Krav Maga fight" - that alone shows that you have no idea what Krav Maga is. There are no Krav Maga fights. Because it is not a martial art ...
Nobody with a Krav Maga background is in MMA or UFC because Krav Maga is not a martial arts. There are no rules in Krav Maga. In MMA or UFC there are very strict rules, even if it may not look like that at first glance because it is so brutal.
In fact, UFC fighters later discover Krav Maga for themselves.
And that Krav Maga doesn't require anything more than "blunt force" is just a silly statement. I'll make you a suggestion, why don't you just go to a trial training session? Krav Maga claims to have simple techniques that are based on natural reactions. That's true so far, but in the end, Krav Maga is also very tech-heavy and it takes a relatively long time to really master these techniques and to be able to call them up in an emergency.
In my last two Krav Maga lessons, we didn't do anything other than block. So much for it to be just "blunt violence". Nonsense. And in the last two weeks we even got by without bag protection, because there is far more than kicking the eggs at Krav Maga ...
And besides that, you contradict yourself or give yourself an indication of what Krav Maga is. Find out about the history of Krav Maga before you trumpet such rubbish into the world. The "inventor" of Krav Maga, Lichtenfeld, was himself a boxer and wrestler and developed the sophisticated self-defense system Krav Maga as a basis. Krav Maga is actually a mix of all possible martial arts that exist.
And as a final note: Krav Maga is trained / taught in many military units around the world, especially in the Israeli military. Krav Maga has also long been part of the compulsory training for the police and other security forces.
If Krav Maga were so simple, flat, and pointless, do you seriously believe that it would be relied on in the military?
Soldiers in particular are dependent on techniques that take their equipment and objects into account. That is, for example, the reason why there are no high kicks or any Kung Fu interludes at Krav Maga. Because you really can't use that with a heavy rifle and heavy soldier's outfit in war.
In Krav Maga there is everything, punch techniques, grip techniques, block techniques, counter techniques, kick techniques, techniques to free yourself from grips, etc. etc.
Last but not least, Krav Maga is always about recognizing conflicts and counteracting them in a de-escalating way. Krav Maga is a very clever system. There is, for example, the semi-passive position (a preliminary stage to the combat stance), in which you have both hands up in order to be prepared for possible attacks, but in contrast to a combat stance ultimately looks to an outside viewer as if you want to de-escalate. And at the same time you have your arms in such a way that you protect the side entrance from knife attacks.
This is just one example of many that shows that Krav Maga is an extremely intelligent, subtle and - WITH ENOUGH TRAINING - effective system.
And by the way, Krav Maga is also a lot about resistance to stress. That is why there are drill training courses in which you then have to apply all techniques under the greatest pressure and physical exertion.
Yet another example of the fact that a lot is well thought out at Krav Maga: There is the principle of soft against hard and hard against soft. Which means, for example, if someone hits me with his fist, I turn my arms in such a way that their fist comes down on my forearm muscles. I can't break anything like this. When I fend off a blow from the outside, I don't block it with my lower am muscles, but with my forearm bone, which in turn comes to its soft wrist. I don't hurt myself like that, but I can help him through the block. That was hard against soft, the other soft against hard.
I hardly think a layman would defend himself like that. Somehow he would hold off and hurt himself, but an experienced Kraver wouldn’t.
Gripping  📅 04.06.2016 15:11:11
@ L.L.L .: Ok. For example, have you read this nonsense here?

QuoteYet another example that a lot has been well thought out at Krav Maga: There is the principle of soft against hard and hard against soft. What
for example, if someone hits me with their fist, I turn
my arms so that his fist comes on my forearm muscles.
I can't break anything like this. When I fend off a blow from outside
I don't block this with my lower muscles, but with
my forearm bone, which then in turn on his soft wrist
comes. I don't hurt myself like that, but I hurt him just by doing it
Block. That was hard against soft, the other soft against hard.

Because that's what I mean. Hocus-pocus. Anyone who practices martial arts cleverly (if you like) does not succumb to the assumption that they are prepared for street attacks "according to the system" as "Kraver" does. But he says himself, he's been training "in a few weeks". That makes him an expert in his field.

But especially from you L.L.L., I am used to a little more attentive reading and understanding. Again: competition for cleanliness, training suitable for competitions, that is hardly possible with two laypeople, because it depends on the experience of people who have done it for years and always had the motivation to win a fight. And someone who is great in competition and can otherwise build up the necessary aggressiveness will in all likelihood be superior to a street thug. We agree on that. I guess you understood me to mean the contradict.

I say but indeed: A "system" that is supposed to train you for completely unpredictable situations - namely self-defense - cannot be trained realistically anyway. The fightathlete will attack you 99% with techniques in sparring that a street mob doesn't do and wild, blunt proll-knocking can be trained with a layman. And then you can definitely see whether what is shown in videos of good YouTube channels works. I don't waste € 29.99 a month on training that I won't use with any sense or understanding in an emergency. I did Wing Tsun for years (Avci). I got exactly two types of people in training "on the mouth": Either from real giants who simply "take" the techniques anyway by sheer strength advantage or from those who have covered you with basic but well-timed boxing attacks . Krav Maga is pretty much the same (pretends to cover "everything") and is ultimately nothing in "right".
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Edited 1 time. Last on 10/13/18 9:06 AM.
Kraver  📅 04.06.2016 19:53:23
By L. L. L. On the subject of soft versus hard: That is no Hocus pocus, but completely natural. The question is rather whether one really has to elevate such basic things to a "training principle". Something sacramental always sounds like it, as if some wise gurus had thought about it. But the fact is: if I kick a lowkick, I'll cut my hard shin into your soft tissues. No matter if eggs, thighs or abdomen. If you hit me, I don't try to evade - because it won't work anyway. I take the double cover and take the blow with my relatively soft forearm muscles or I turn away at the same time and then cover with biceps / triceps. This is completely organic and without much assumption or precision. As I said. Trying to make a principle out of this is kind of like a banana. I do not teach the principle "a blow is dealt with the fist".
I read the "soft versus hard" thing in two different Krav Maga books. In my Krav Maga "club" (?) (It's called the Krav Maga System, by Eyal Yanilov) this is not explicitly addressed and named that way during training. But in the end it doesn't matter whether you call it that and then interpret it as mythical guru shit or whether you just do it. The result is the same in both cases. The fact is that Krav Maga is not a wäm-bäm-bum-something training, but follows certain basic principles, techniques and tactics. It is also clear that in an emergency this cannot be used automatically with 100% accuracy. But it is true that Krav Maga Training takes reality into account and, despite its basic principles, is a dynamic system that adapts to different circumstances.

The fact is that in addition to slowly learning the techniques, to impress them in the subconscious through frequent repetition, you also do a lot of other things to take account of the dynamics: changing partners, several attackers, changing training locations (for example, I'll soon be visiting a public transport Seminar where you train in a bus), sparring, drill training, etc. etc.

Incidentally, in the direction of Greif, nobody claims that Krav Maga is easy and that you learn it overnight. Krav Maga claims that it can be learned quickly because it is based on natural reactions. That's true, but I have to say myself that I've underestimated that so far. I think that it takes some time to have the basic techniques stored in the mechanism in such a way that they can be called up relatively automatically in an emergency.

But that's exactly why you do sparring. In the best case, a training is done in such a way that you practice three or four different variants on a topic (e.g. blocking punches) (blow from above, blow from the side, blow towards the solar plexus, ...) and afterwards in sparring or "half sparring" (that's what I would call it now, I mean that it is more than the dry processes, but not yet a real sparring) mixes all variants in a normal to fast speed. It is precisely in those moments that I always notice that it will take some time for me or that I have to repeat these techniques very often. Sometimes it works fine, there are pages or variants that suit one better than others. And then you have to work on it until everything functions automatically at some point. And then you have significant advantages in an emergency, regardless of who you are facing.

Because that is also an important point. Apparently Greif thinks that Krav Maga has such useless techniques that every street fighter uses anyway. But that is total nonsense. Krav Maga techniques have nothing to do with dull touch. In Krav Maga, too, as in boxing or something like that, there are special punching techniques, a specific fighting stance, etc. These differ from other martial arts as well as from street thugs.

For example, in the typical Krav Maga punch, the fist is tilted forward at a 45 ° angle. Which both protects the hand (since you only hit the knuckles of your index and middle fingers) and can help you get through blocks. For example, with a block to protect the solar plexus, how you hold your fist makes a big difference. With a normal boxing punch - with a real block - you hardly have a chance to get through, with a Krav Maga punch it looks different because the area is much smaller.
So, now show me a street roll that strikes in 45 °.
Gripping  📅 04.06.2016 20:07:18
@ L.L.L .:
It is true that I have less martial arts experience if you have been with us for +10 years. But with this

QuoteThe most important thing is the mentality. You need opponents who really attack and don't cooperate.

You confirm what I wrote with a few reservations: Mentality and not serve as a "dummy". Well, then let's just say you train with several people, let's assume that you have a circle of friends who are appropriately motivated to fight each other (as friends but as real as possible). On youtube gives there are very good videos explaining techniques. Many of them do not come from any whistle who just wanted to set a completely blatant video, but from well-known representatives.

Just to name banal examples: I look at the liberation from a typical "bearhug" and just let my acquaintance grab a hold. The same applies to sweat defense techniques and also to many active attack techniques.